Dr. Erinne Kennedy is the Assistant Dean for Curriculum and Integrated Learning at Kansas City University College of Dental Medicine. Dr. Kennedy shares her journey into dentistry, influenced by her family’s dental background and a pivotal phone call that led her to pursue a specialty in dental public health at Harvard. She discusses key topics such as burnout in the dental profession, strategies for resilience, innovations in preventive dentistry, and her passion for dental education. Dr. Kennedy also highlights the importance of being open to unexpected opportunities, the evolving role of technology in healthcare, and the value of fostering emotional intelligence in dental professionals. The conversation ends with valuable book recommendations and career advice for young dentists.
In this episode of The Burleson Box, Dr. Dustin Burleson welcomes Dr. Erinne Kennedy, Assistant Dean for Curriculum and Integrated Learning at Kansas City University College of Dental Medicine. Dr. Kennedy shares her fascinating journey into dentistry, which was heavily influenced by her family of dental professionals and her passion for public health. She recounts the pivotal moment when a mentor encouraged her to apply for a dental public health specialty—at Harvard—within a two-week deadline, a decision that shaped the course of her career.
Our discussion covers the pressing issue of burnout in the dental profession, with Dr. Kennedy offering valuable insights backed by research. She explains how excessive working hours, lack of adequate recovery time, and administrative burdens contribute to burnout among healthcare professionals. Using a compelling analogy comparing work schedules to endurance training, she illustrates the importance of balancing workload and rest. She also introduces the concept of "resilience confetti," small, joyful activities that help dental professionals maintain well-being and engagement during their workday.
Dr. Kennedy and Dr. Burleson explore strategies that dental teams can implement to create healthier work environments, such as rethinking office hours, planning meaningful time off, and fostering a culture that prioritizes both patient care and team well-being. They discuss innovative scheduling models, including the effectiveness of three-day, 12-hour shifts, and how such models can improve job satisfaction and reduce burnout.
A significant part of the conversation focuses on the future of preventive dentistry. Dr. Kennedy shares her excitement about advancements in salivary testing, peptides, and microbiome management, predicting that these innovations will reshape how dental professionals approach prevention. She explains how new materials and techniques, such as peptide-based remineralization and nanoparticle technology, could reduce the need for surgical interventions and lead to better long-term patient outcomes.
As an educator, Dr. Kennedy highlights the importance of emotional intelligence and leadership training in dental schools. She describes the Thrive program at KCU, a two-day workshop designed to help students develop resilience, goal-setting skills, and emotional maturity. She stresses that fostering a mindset of adaptability and openness to unexpected opportunities is crucial for career growth.
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Dustin Burleson:
Welcome to the Burleson Box, the podcast where we explore innovative ideas and solutions in the field of dentistry, orthodontics and beyond. I'm your host, Dustin Burleson, and today we're honored to welcome Dr. Aaron Kennedy. Dr. Kennedy is a renowned thought leader, educator, and advocate for advancing public health and preventive dentistry. As the assistant Dean for Curriculum and Integrated Learning at Kansas City University College of Dental Medicine, she's dedicated to shaping the next generation of dental professionals. Dr. Kennedy's expertise spans a wide range of topics including provider burnout, resilience, and public health. Her insights have been featured in dental economics and dental entrepreneur woman. She's also a sought actor, speaker and writer, contributing her voice to some of the most pressing conversations in modern dentistry. In today's episode, we'll dive into critical topics like managing burnout in the dental profession, the future of preventative dental care, what it means to lead and inspire in an ever-changing healthcare landscape. I'm so excited to welcome Dr. Kennedy to the show today on another episode with the World A Box. Welcome everyone. I'm so excited and honored to have Dr. Aaron Kennedy on the show. Aaron, thanks for being here.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Thanks so much for the invitation. I'm really excited to be recording this podcast today.
Dustin Burleson:
I am thrilled to share your background and your career with our listeners, and I've got a lot of really great questions. But first, without going all the way back to birth, maybe give us your backstory. Where'd you go to school? How did you come into your specialty and where you teach and lead at KCU? I'm just curious your story.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Thanks, Dustin. I won't start all the way back at birth, but I will say I was born and raised in a family. My dad is a dentist, my uncle's a dentist, my mom's a hygienist. I grew up in a small rural town, which seems maybe not like a big deal, but it actually has really influenced my trajectory and the choices that I've made throughout my career. I went to Ohio State, the Ohio State University,
Dustin Burleson:
The Ohio. That's right. Love
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
I listening to this, I want to make sure I get it right. We have a big game coming up as everyone knows when we're recording this, and so I'm putting all my Buckeye energy out there, but I studied biology in Spanish and I really had a passion for international community service projects when I was in college and I had gone on mission trips with my dad as a dentist and many of his colleagues, and so that was kind of the lens at which I went through my biology degree and when I was preparing for what to do after graduation, like many 20 and 21 year olds are today, I really focused on applying to programs that brought me a lot of joy and things that I enjoyed in life, and that was dentistry. So I applied to dental school. I ended up going to Nova Southeastern University College of Dental Medicine.
That is where I met Dean Linda Neeson, who's now the dean at KCU. But I loved going to Nova. I loved dental school. I know most dental students probably do not think that way today if they're listening to this podcast, but I loved it. I thought it was such a fantastic experience. I learned so many new things. I got to meet so many new people. I got to be involved in all of these wonderful community service projects. It was my dream thing, which is probably why I am in a dental school now. I just couldn't leave. But I was really challenged to be a part of the community at Nova and I appreciated that. So as I was getting ready for graduation, I knew I wasn't quite ready to go back to my dad's practice. And so I joined a VA hospital for a general practice residency in Baltimore, Maryland.
I absolutely fell in love with working in a hospital. I thought it was really interesting. I loved caring for patients. I love being a part of surgical teams, whether it was prepping somebody for surgery or delivering that surgery in operating room, and I had a passion for that. I still did not know what I was going to do next though. So Dean Neeson called me, it was in the middle of September and I digress because many students are going to listen to this and you are going to have someone call you and I hope that you're ready because it can be this amazing pivot and trajectory in your life. And she said, I think you need to go on to do a dental public health specialty. And I was like, A what? And so I was googling a dental public health specialty as she was telling me about it because I thought, we did not learn this in dental school.
I have no idea what you're talking about. And next thing you know, she's like, the deadline isn't two weeks. She's like, you have to submit your application in two weeks. And I thought, that is a really quick deadline. Most people work on this for a year. But I submitted an application. I only applied to one program because I only had two weeks, and I got in the next year to the Harvard School of Dental Medicine Dental Public Health Residency Program. And so I moved to Boston, got a job at Mass Gen Hospital in one of their community clinic sites, and it was the best of both worlds. It was serving the community in a hospital setting. And I was in my dental public health residency, and I loved it. About a year in, they said, would you like to do a master's in dental education?
And this is a good example of where I said no multiple times. I said, no, I'm not really interested. No, no, thank you. No, it's okay. Thanks so much. And eventually I really reflected and I thought, you know what? What's another year? Let me see if this is something I'm really interested in. Because at the time, I didn't peg myself for being an educator, even though I was going to the curriculum management committee and updating all of our courses and designing new syllabi, I had an inability to look in the mirror and be like, Hey, you're actually doing what educators do. But thank goodness I had great mentors because they guided me in the right direction. And I started building the Masters of Dental education program while I was taking it. And I loved that that is building an airplane while you're in the air and what is more fun than that in the grand scheme of life.
And so I graduated from that program. I was recruited to a practice called the Alliance Dental Center where we use salivary data and science to get patients to health from a salivary and a microbiome perspective and then keep them there. And I loved that. That was taking everything I learned in clinical practice and public health and putting it into a practice. And it ran very much like a private practice. And next thing you know, time went by, it is the pandemic. And I got a phone call from Dean Linda Neeson again, which as you know what happened the last time I applied to a program and got ready to go to the next place in two weeks, it was really similar. She called and she said, Hey, I'm prepping to start a new dental school. Would you like to help me build a new dental school? And I thought, yeah, that's great. Sounds good. And I go to hang up and I was like, you know what? As an adult, I should probably think about this a little longer than two minutes. And I said, I think I'm going to do the right thing and call you back. And she's like, absolutely, call me back anytime. So I vetted it with my pit crew and I really thought through the implications and what I wanted to do. And I actually moved to Joplin, Missouri that fall sight unseen in the middle of the pandemic.
And since then I've been in dental education and a little bit of community clinical practice. And I think if there are dental students listening to this or even people in your career, I think there are two things that I look back on that I just think are the sermon in a sentence. And it's like, be open to the call. There are going to be a lot of people in your life that call you to do something, and it's going to take a risk. It's going to take courage. It's going to take effort. But if you're open to the call, I think some of the best things are on the other side of that. And this is, I'm an older daughter, so anyone who is into birth order, you can imagine who I am as a person. And the other piece that I look back on is you can't plan your way through everything. A big piece of life is being present and just being really open. And I look back on my career and I couldn't have planned anything, and yet it's been so amazing and I'm so grateful. And I think sometimes it's just being really open and maybe not having a plan.
Dustin Burleson:
That's awesome. That's just so inspiring. And for the future of our profession, to know that people like you are at the helm is really reassuring because we're going to talk about some pretty heavy topics like burnout and resilience. But I love that I applied to one program, you might've heard of it. It's called Harvard in two weeks. This is just amazing. Yeah, I think my mentor in residency sat me down one day. She's like, have you ever thought about teaching? And I joked and I said, why am I messing up in the clinic? What am I doing wrong? She's like, no, I just think you're good. It was that similar thing. She's like, you're already doing, when you prepare a presentation, you're already doing it at the level that a professor would do at. Right? So I saw my uncle and my aunt are PhDs, and they taught for years at Notre Dame and NC State, and he said, yeah, for every hour in front of a student, there's about 10 hours that goes into preparing that lecture.
And I always remembered that. So anyway, she noticed that, and I think a year or two later, I got the call and they said, Hey, we need someone to help. Would you like to come down and help teach in the department? And you never know, to your point when that call is going to come and being open to it because it's so easy to say. I mean, there's right, there's never a perfect time. There's never a perfect time to go do a specialty in public health. There's never a perfect time to get your master's. There's never a perfect time to move to Joplin, but you have to be open to it. I love that. What a great, great story. I want to talk about burnout. I know a lot of your research, a lot of your work centers around it. It's a major concern in healthcare. Obviously the pandemic, I think really brought a lot of attention to it. I think it was there all along, but got worse. Can you share your thoughts on what you think the root causes of burnout into dentistry are and how we as professionals can actually build resilience?
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Totally. This is one of my favorite topics. So from a root cause perspective, we actually have a lot of data around this and we have data across a bunch of different healthcare professionals, which is helpful, right? Because then we can see similarities and themes and figure out how we can change the system for everyone to be a little bit better. And there's two things that we know from the data, and I actually shared some really cool articles that will probably link to the bottom of this podcast, but two areas that almost automatically lead to burnout is working hours and time away and administrative resistance. And I'm going to paint a picture for you because I think the picture is what makes it really easy to understand growing up in life, I am a cross country runner and a track athlete, so I love talking about sprints. I think they're amazing. I don't know who loves sprints, but I do. And so I'm going to have you all picture, imagine running a series of 2100 meter races, like all out, not practice runs like everything. You've got 20 of them scenario A, you get about an hour rest in between each one and every five you get three days off. Is that challenging? Dustin, could you do that?
Dustin Burleson:
Seems reasonable.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Seems reasonable. You could probably do that, right? And over time, you would actually get really fit and you'd probably become stronger, right? By doing that. Okay, so now imagine scenario B. Now you're running these 20 races back to back between each race. You only have two minutes, and then after every five you get a five minute break. Okay? And your job is to do that every day. Is that doable?
Dustin Burleson:
I don't think I'd make it to lunch the first day.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Not only would you not make it to lunch the first day, but eventually you would get hurt, right? You wouldn't have enough recovery. And so instead of getting stronger and benefiting from this stress, you would actually likely get injured. And now let's imagine scenario C, you do the same thing. You're running 20 races back to back. You get your two minutes in between each one, five minutes at the end. You have to do this every day. And now the whole time you're wearing a large speed shoot, one of those parachutes that's on your back. Now you're being pulled back by the wind. Is this even doable?
Dustin Burleson:
No,
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
No. I mean, it may be hard to make it to the first five, your first five minute break.
So scenario A is hard enough, but it's doable because there's rest and recovery built in. And at the end of the day, you are going to benefit from this level of resistance. It's why working out and lifting weights is good for you is because when done correctly, it actually builds strength, right? Scenario B is challenging, but you're not going to be able to keep it up for very long. You may make it through the first week, you're going to be pretty sore, but over time you're going to end up getting injured from that. And scenario C, I mean it's almost impossible yet. Scenario B is exactly what working hours and time away looks like and our current healthcare system when not done well. And so the challenge is that we are not meant to work the hours that we work, and we're also meant to have greater breaks in between working so that we can build resilience.
And the second piece, or CI guess would say is administrative resistance. We have far more administrative resistance today, whether it's clinical practice or education than we've ever had before. There are checks and balances, some of which that are fantastic and very needed and others that just act like that parachute on your back in the process. And so I share this image because I think it really helps you picture what it looks like tangibly for things that many of us face each and every day. But the good news is we can do something about it. It helps. I think it helps.
Dustin Burleson:
Oh, it's huge and you feel it. I think we've all been there. If we're honest, it might not. Hopefully it's not a long-term thing, but we've all been in some position for a short amount of time where you feel like you're the sprinter with the parachute on and it's like, it's like, how do I break free of this? Can we talk about some strategies that dentists and their teams we think about this and it's like you might not even realize someone on your team performing their job, doing good work is struggling with this. What are some things we can do that we could actually take to work with us on Monday morning?
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Totally. I came up with a list of things that I've seen work in practice that actually help tackle these two root causes. One is planning team time off. And a big piece of this is having some really authentic conversations with what works for each team member. Oftentimes in a practice, we do what works best for the dentist and that's important, but also there's a team surrounding this dentist, and I give an example because there are people on my team that can take a long weekend, maybe three or four days, and they're ready to rock, they come back, it was the burst of energy they needed. It's how they rejuvenate all that good stuff. That does not work for me. I actually don't relax until day four on vacation, and so I have to be gone at least a full week, if not 10 days for me to get enough rest and recovery time and quiet time for me to come back and be ready to hit the ground running.
And so it's really important to think about, let's have a conversation around what helps people be their best and let's work that into our schedules. Speaking of time off, the other big conversation we all need to start having is what are the best working hours? Some offices are going with shorter days, like seven to one or seven to two. Some are going to these longer days, but less days a week. And I'll give an example. I had the opportunity last year to speak at a conference with this amazing team at a Pennsylvania hospital, and they realized that their team was facing burnout, not just their dental clinic but across their hospital system. And so they sat down and they said, what is the best schedule for you all? Is it eight hours a day, five days a week? Is it 10 hours a day, four days a week?
Is it 12 hours a day, three days a week? And actually the overwhelming majority of everyone selected 12 hours a day, three days a week. So that there was, when they were on, they were on, and when they were off, they were totally off. And when I was sitting here in this presentation, we were co-presenting on a panel. I started to engage with this speaker because I was like, I did not know you were going to talk about this. And this is maybe one of the most important things that we've seen, and it also impacts how we design our practices. Now you could have two dentists working in an office and it could be open six days a week, and it could be three twelves and there could be two different teams. And next thing you know, the overhead decreases because you're maxing out the building and also building resilience for that dentist and their team.
And so I share that. I think we're often stuck in a traditional model there. And I think that the newer generation of dentist is going to be looking at it a little bit differently. And I'm not saying it has to be 12 hour days. I'm just giving that example of that Pennsylvania hospital, but I share that because it brings up email. The reason these on days and these off days matter is because even if you have a shorter working day, oftentimes you're dealing with things at night. I mean, Dustin, how often have you come home from wherever you're working, whatever you're doing that day and you're managing something administrative in the
Dustin Burleson:
No, it's nonstop. There's so much digital homework, particularly in ortho, you could do ClinCheck all day long, Saturday, Sunday. Yeah, it's crazy.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
And so when you have that setting aside time where you're working and you're working hard and then you're totally off to rest and recover, I think is really important. I always bring up after hours emergencies. Typically teams have a really good way to handle this. But also I think it's important when thinking about the time off work, if these emergencies are coming up regularly, you may want to consider a different way of handling those so that every week you're getting the same 72 hours or 48 hours off of work. Because what we know from burnout literature is that we all need a break and we all need that rhythm to rest and recover. It's just huge. So the next thing is something I learned this year, and I am not an expert yet, but I am trying, and it's called resilience confetti. Dustin, have you heard of resilience confetti?
Dustin Burleson:
No, I can't wait to hear this. It's a fun term. It's a funny.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
So years ago in resilience literature, yes, we know that you need reduced administrative burden. Yes, we know that we need to understand our working days and we need time off to rest and recover to build that resilience. And also we need to be able to do that during the working day as well. I have an aura ring. I don't know if you have an aura ring, Dustin.
Dustin Burleson:
A lot of our clients do. Yeah, these are great. These are
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Fantastic. Okay, so I'm a huge biohacking data fan, and I basically got this aura ring and it said, okay, every day you're stressed at work. And I was like, I'm not really stressed, I'm just engaged and I'm responding to things. But my aura ring said that I was experiencing stress. And so I have this coach and she was talking about one of the newest forms of resilience literature is like you are often, especially in a health profession, never going to be able to change the difficulty of your work. It is going to be hard to be a doctor pretty much every day that you are serving as a doctor. And we can build resilience confetti into that day. And so the examples that she gave and some of the ones that I've used is pick something that for five minutes just brings you joy, a cheesy smile, just five minutes of bliss and bring that into your day every day.
So I've heard people sit down and just have a really good cup of tea. Other people have a great cup of coffee. I've seen people listen to a song, have a dance party. I've seen people go on a loop and walk outside, but picking something that brings you joy is a game changer. And I'm not that great at it, but our dental students are fantastic. If you go into our classroom, there's toys everywhere. There's roller skates, there's footballs, golf clubs, back rollers, all sorts of fun things, basketballs, everything frisbees. And whenever they get a break, because we taught them early in our wellness program to disengage and chill out and build this resilience confetti, if you take a break from lecture, golf balls are flying in a safe way by the way, footballs are going. People are outside playing, playing football and hopscotch and whatever. And so I think bringing that into our office culture and actively saying like, Hey, this is my resilience confetti. Hey, let's have some team resilience confetti. I actually think moving forward that is going to be something that really helps reengage teams
Dustin Burleson:
And it gives them some level of control. Ashley Goodall was on the show recently. He was head of Deloitte, and I think Cisco's don't quote me, that may be Oracle. Oracle. Anyways, a head executive in HR talking about giving employees control over their schedule over their day. We by the way, loved three twelves when we were growing our practice. We had associates that were willing to do that, but if they switched with another associate, they could get a full week off and not miss any pay. So you working three twelves getting paid full time, and if you work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday this week and get someone else to cover your Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday next week, you can take a full week off and not miss great. But I think it's centered around control and yeah, I think find your little moment of resilience, confetti. Mine is walking.
I will get out of the building and go for a walk. If I'm covering a clinic, I've just got to go walk. I'm share the story with my wife. I was covering a clinic in a very suburban kind of concrete jungle, not a very walkable place. It's like you have to take your car everywhere, but there was a Starbucks across the road, I mean in a normal European grid layout. This would've been a two minute walk, but it was like 12 lanes of traffic and over a bridge. So the front desk receptionist, she saw me come back. She's like, did you just walk to Starbucks? I was like, yes, I almost died, but I walked to the Starbucks. So when I cover a clinic in Seattle, it's beautiful out here. Go for a walk, get out in nature, whatever that is. I really like that.
But I think it's right. It's giving yourself some level of control to hammer the point home because as a doctor is you are pouring your heart and soul and energy. You'd give so much to your patients and it is physically, but also mentally exhausting to come home and know that you saw an ortho. The clinic's out here, a hundred patients a day sometimes, oh my goodness, you've got to diagnose and spend time and be thoughtful and answer questions and encourage. And yes, you got to work better on brushing and let me show you how those rubber bands go. You can't just come in and out and treat patients like a number. You've got to spend time with them. It's exhausting, but it's super fulfilling. I think every doctor you talk to is like, yeah, I love it, but also I'm stressed. So I think giving some level of control to you and your team is great.
Let's talk about what you're seeing at the, because you're preparing students at the beginning to handle this. What are you seeing in dental schools to help students manage the pressures of what they're about to step into? Not only, I mean dental school was stressful. I love that Nova was supportive and great. My dental school was supportive and great in Kansas City. I have a lot of family members who are dentists too. I don't think dental schools are always like that. I think sometimes dental schools kind of beat you down. So I love that Nova did the right thing with you and encourage you. What are you teaching students? How did they manage this? How did they prioritize wellbeing? When we're taught, I think as students that it's all about performing and getting good grades and at some level trying to be perfect. What are you seeing at the school
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Level? Totally. Someone in our student services team shared this book. It was Generation Z, unfiltered, and the tagline is, students are stressed, depressed, and exam obsessed. And when I read that tagline, I was like, oh, someone's nailed this. And so this new generation of students, they really are stressed out and many of them are not as connected, especially because of what happened during the pandemic that really impacted some of the social connection from college into health professions programs. And they're very much exam obsessed. And you said it just now, Dustin, many of them are aiming for perfection. And so one of the things that we've been doing at KCU that I think is working, at least the survey data suggests that it's working very, very well, is that we have a two day program called Thrive and I deliver the content for Thrive over the course of two days. One day is at Crystal Bridges, it's an art museum in northwest Arkansas. I don't know if you've ever been, it's fabulous.
Dustin Burleson:
It's amazing. It's amazing.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
And we have one day there and then we have one day on site and we talk about everything from what is resilience and grit to how do we set a goal to what our values, motivations, and our purpose. And then the next day we actually go into elements of cognitive behavioral therapy and emotion management, and we work through all of that. It involves a pink blowup suit and I can detail exactly what that's for, but that was a huge hit this last year. And we talk about imposter syndrome and challenges that they face from a cognitive perspective, and they also build a lot of community. There's a lot of fun activities and engagement across those two days. And it's the tee up. And then throughout the year we call back to this wellness programming and we have events on campus. We bring up some the topics and themes.
If I notice 20 students are having a really hard time with something, I'll present to the whole class and say, remember, we prepped for this. We knew this was coming. And remember the tools in our toolkit, this is what we have and this is how we can navigate that. And then we also have a coaching program where students are assigned coaches that are faculty members, kind of like mentorship or advisor programs, but these faculty are trained to be coaches. And coaches actually allow the learner to be the leader. And so the coach is really asking questions and you're not actually doing a lot of talking, but you're helping the student identify the solution within themselves. And so we start out with this huge kickoff with Thrive, and then we have this wellness programming and the coaching program that runs tangentially throughout their time here. And I think that that has been really helpful. And also we have students using counseling services at a record rate. They're engaging in primary healthcare at a record rate, and they're also engaging other support services like learning enhancement to develop study plans. So I think when you look at it that way, dental school probably looks a little bit different than what you and I went through even though we both had really positive experiences. But that's what a suite of services looks like when we're thinking about caring for this new generation of dentists.
Dustin Burleson:
It's tremendous. I hope other dental schools listen and implement something like that. And I encourage you to publish the data and share because that helps not only the patients, but the teams that we work with. I see so many dentists that are so technically competent to the level of almost clinical perfection, but then that spews into their expectations of their teammates. So we expect people to read our minds. We have trouble delegating. I see a, I have a tremendous amount of respect for our profession. I love it. So I don't want this come across the wrong way, but there are a lot of dentists who are technically excellent and emotionally Ima mature and cannot handle the wrong instrument being handed to them or the patient showing a blade. And the tooth fracturing is like they are emotional toddlers sometimes, but clinically amazing surgeons. And I think it's because a lot of us did not receive or had not thought about what does it take to be emotionally mature?
What is leadership and how do we treat our teams? It's really amazing. I think you see that in the turnover in a lot of dental practices and a lot of the just kind of tendency in our profession for there to be a glass ceiling, we just can't break through. As a dental assistant, how far can you go where the practices that get this, that the students you're teaching, they're encouraging their dental assistant. Maybe you want to do dental hygiene school, maybe you want to become a dentist, maybe you'll be my boss one day. That ability to see a broader horizon, really exciting. But yeah, I think even though I had a great dental school experience, I think a lot of it was centered around technical excellence. And if that meant your mental health struggle, then you lost sleep. It was like, well, you have this outward reward for having done that, right? So I graduated first in my class. That was a desire to please my father and to try to be the best. It was not at the benefit of my mental health. A lot of times I was up till three in the morning memorizing histology slides. It's like maybe an A would've been just fine. So it's interesting. I think either I joke and say it attracts a lot of perfectionists to our profession, or if you aren't one, we try to make you one before
You leave and it's really dangerous. I love that you're doing that. It's a long rambling. I don't think there's a question there, but thank you for doing that for our perfection.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Well, and let me just add, I also think it's important to realize we're all dentists. We are all going to be touching this next generation in some way. You are going to be hiring someone who's graduating in the next couple of years. You may be working alongside them at a practice. You may be in a study club with them. You may be mentoring them in some way. I think, and I should have known this, this is one of those things where it's like, duh, Aaron. But when I started this wellness journey, I was like, this is going to be so fun. We're going to share all this amazing information. We're going to build this program. We're going to make really healthy dentists. This is going to be fantastic. And guess who's changed? You're talking to her.
I am the person that's changed and I share with my team all the time because I think we all see that. And we know that. I said, I think I've become five people in the last two years. I'm shedding myself and then becoming a new person because when I teach and I share and I hold these students accountable to these healthy behaviors, I have 160 mirrors reflecting back on me either what I'm role modeling and what our other faculty are role modeling or what I'm saying, and thrive. And so there's a crucible there for all of us who love organic chemistry because at the end of the day, I realized I came in with some of those behaviors about delegating or wanting things to be perfect. I loved clinical practice and I loved being great at clinical practice. And I loved when things were predictable and went right, like many dentists and my patients love that too.
And also when I came into dental education, I had to relearn that because I thought, I don't want to be role modeling the thing that I'm saying, please don't do this. And so I love this generation of students because they hold me accountable and I've probably had two years of greater change because they're willing to be on the journey with me. And I'll share with you just one example I talked to them about get to versus have to, because at the end of the day, we get to go to dental school, we get to learn all this amazing content, and we get to have these early clinical experiences and we get to do so many different amazing things that are going to impact our career. And also when you're tired and it's finals, it feels like you have to, but the language that we have can be really powerful.
So I'm always saying, we get to do this. We get to have this amazing opportunity or whatever it is. And a couple weeks ago, it was probably four weeks ago, we were in the middle of all these assessments and I was teaching a ton and I was a little bit rundown. I was tired. I had a shoot on and I was exhausted. And I walked in and I was like, you know what? I have to do this guys. I'm going to have to leave the classroom early or whatever the case may be. I was explaining to them what we were going to do that day. And someone in the back row piped up and they said, without a microphone, Dr. Kennedy, you get to
Dustin Burleson:
That's,
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
And I paused and I was like, oh my gosh. And it shifted my entire being. I was like, you get to do this. And it was amazing the energy and the perspective and the presence that came from that. And so I think about that and I just encourage dentists who are already out in practice and have already graduated, you are going to be learning alongside this new generation of dentists and how can we grow together, I think is the question. Because I don't know from my perspective, I learned so much from them that I'm just grateful to call them my colleague.
Dustin Burleson:
That's huge. And hats off to you. I mean that's one of the biggest signs of emotional maturity is being able to change your mind and to shed those layers. As you said, I think a lot of people in education think they have to pretend to know all the answers. I had this conversation with a friend, I've been trying to get him to come teach at the school. We have a lot of adjunct faculty and we need a lot of adjunct faculty to teach clinical orthodontics. And he's like, I just don't feel like I'm there yet. He feels like he has to have all the answers. And I said, you don't get it. I said, it's the most exciting thing in the world to have a resident show you something that changes your mind about it. So I had this resident, he's like, I know you've been showing me how to put anterior lingual crown torque in a tooth.
It kind of works, but every time I do it, by the time I get to the other side, most of it's been swiped out. And someone else said it do this way. And he's like, and then I saw a YouTube video's, an orthodontist, and he said, what do you think about this? And I watched him do it and then I checked it with a gauge. I was like, that's actually way smarter than the way I've been doing it for 20 years, so I I'm going to start doing it your way. He's like, are you serious? He's like, yeah. He's like the next patient. I can do it this way. I was like, yeah, go do that. That's exactly what we want. So being able to say, Hey, we're in this together and learning co is great. I think it's the most, it keeps me fresh when they're showing me 3D printed stuff and AI bracket placement and all this wild, I'm like, okay, I need to keep up.
So I love that. It's very cool that you're doing that with the students. I love the get to and have to. I will share that and give you credit. That's very cool. Can we talk about public health and preventive care? I know this is your specialty. I'm curious, where do you see preventive dentistry evolving in the next decade? Always have this conversation with friends and family who I think it would be a dentist dream to have. They're always like, oh, sugar, that's good for job security for you, right? I was like, actually, I think we'd prefer to never see tooth decay again. It'd great to just focus on health. How do you see preventive dentistry changing? I'm curious, where do you think we're headed in the next 10 years or
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
So? Honestly, I think we're on the cusp, pun intended, where preventive dentistry is going to go. I do, when I started, it was 20 19, 20 20, I was working at the practice of Massachusetts. We were one of the first practices in the country to use the peptide one 14 for remineralization. And at the time we were also using two or three different salivary tests and it was the bread and butter of our practice. And I teach all of the preventive dentistry, the Curology at KCU and also all of our salivary sessions. And I recently had the students look up and answer all these questions about different salivary companies about sensitivity, specificity, cost, what's included, because I'm trying to teach them how to think about it because five years from now, 10 years from now, the salary tests aren't going to be the same. So I don't need 'em to memorize anything.
I need them to be able to think about it so that they can make decisions in their own practice 10 years from now. And I started to pull all of the website links and the labels and it went from being like two or three salivary companies to being over 22 different companies and tests that I put into this exercise in the classroom. And I thought that is the number that demonstrates in just a couple years, the exponential rise in how we're looking at data and preventive dentistry. I also think that now we are approaching prevention in a different way. One, we're looking at microbiome management. There's different probiotics that are on the market that are absolute game changers in practice for both periodontal disease and caries management. Obviously there are different types of fluoride all the time. And then there's also peptides and nanoparticles and the peptides and the nanoparticles are where I'm so curious.
In fact, I was just learning, speaking of not having all the answers, I'm always reading about what's new when it comes to curology and prevention. But I love peptides. I think peptides are fantastic. If you don't know what a one 14 peptide is, is it is a peptide that can go to the deepest part of the lesion and it forms a matrix in an acidic environment like one of a lesion where you're going to have, there's acid being dissolving the enamel matrix, and then it pulls in calcium and phosphate and mineralizes lesions from the deepest part of the lesion all the way up to the surface where fluoride works from the external surface and has a more difficult time penetrating in. So I've been using peptides in practice since 2019, but now there are companies that are using nanoparticles to penetrate lesions and deliver fluoride calcium phosphate as well. And so I think this nanoparticle technology is becoming more and more affordable as well. And I think together, I think some of these products are going to be absolute game changers with preventive dentistry.
Dustin Burleson:
That's fantastic. Are you testing more in younger populations or adult or both? What does that look like?
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Both In practice, I was using these preventive technologies across the lifespan and these companies are too. So I think those components are really fantastic. I used to tell patients every day in practice, I said, my goal is to treatment plan. And once we get through this treatment plan and on all of this offensive prevention that we're doing, like Dr. Brian Novi always says, I hope that I never have to pick up a handpiece again. And I said, I think we can use science and data to get us there and to keep you there. And that's what I found in practice. And so I think when you think about the future of management of oral health conditions, I think we all need to envision the future where surgery is the more rare component of practice versus the primary component of practice.
Dustin Burleson:
Yeah, absolutely. Where do you think technology have a role in that? I'm thinking kind of formulating a question as I go, this is amazing technology. How do we get it in the hands of more providers? How do we get it to the public? I think in Massachusetts historically, I have a friend there who's an oral surgeon, historically has a reputation of being a very good state that has very good health coverage and very organized. And in other states, I don't want to list other states and get in trouble, but there's other states where the access to care is really horrible, right? I think I grew up in Ohio, so a small rural town in Ohio, hard to find a provider who might take your insurance. What do you think the future looks like as far as getting access, allowing patients to receive this kind of care? Is that a 20 year out dream closer? What do you think?
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
I think it's going to end up being closer for two reasons. Historically, one of the classes I teach at school is a health policy class. And historically we've really focused on restrictive policies, things like dental licensure and different things like that, restricting people or having clinicians. Certain clinicians do certain things or we've been facilitating it like a faculty policy, like, okay, you need to take this CE course in order to renew this, and then we're going to track this using a prescription drug monitoring program. But in the last couple years, states have initiated healthcare reform by changing payment mechanisms. For example, there are states now that are going to start reimbursing primary care doctors when they practice antibiotic stewardship related to tooth pain and swelling. And part of that is going to be a mandated referral to a dental home. And so there are new ways to incentivize practice by paying for things differently.
And there's some leaders in this space. And so I think if we can figure out how to reimburse well for some of these innovative practices, I think that's when you're going to see the change happen so quickly. Next thing you know, you're going to have practices that have more dental hygienists, maybe more oral preventive assistance, more public health dental hygienists that are helping deliver this innovative preventive medicine alongside of a dental team. And so I think when we harness the payment mechanism, we are going to change practice, and I think we have the power to change it exponentially. And so I hope to see it in my lifetime. But I also think in addition to all of that, I think that we're on the cusp of also changing software programs. So I don't know if you've been to a hospital recently either to say hi to somebody or go for a doctor's appointment, but clinicians use a program called UpToDate and Stat Pearls.
And many of these programs deliver the most relevant evidence-based content at an interval that gets to clinicians so quickly. There is no training program that could ever be as efficient as these softwares. And it allows an algorithm to be updated on heart failure on Friday and be in the pockets of clinicians over the weekend. And I think we need to start thinking about how we can harness technology and evidence-based practice and dentistry to deliver that into the hands of clinicians at a more rapid pace. And I do think that's what the future looks like. We've started, but I think it's going to be a mindset and a mindset shift and a cultural shift in how we practice dentistry in the next 10, 20, 30 years. But I think that's something that's on the horizon that's also coming our way that will help implement these preventive strategies into practice. So
Dustin Burleson:
Oh, it'd be tremendous for antibiotic stewardship, for a lot of things in dentistry, you know? Are there any companies currently doing that in dentistry? I know I saw Pacific Dental Services rebranded as PDS Health, and they're putting new clinics in basically urgent care centers. I can't tell you how many kids we see in the emergency department in Kansas City at Children's Mercy. I still teach there with toothaches that get a prescription and off they go and back in right with an abscess. It's really crazy. Luckily we have a pediatric dental residency that helps treat those, but I think of a lot of small rural hospitals where, I don't know what the number is, but last time I checked it, it was astronomical. The billions of dollars we spend in the United States alone on two three related emergency department visits, is that something dental software is going to work on? Do you think we'll eventually all be on Epic or something? EMR kind of related, where are we headed?
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
I've used Epic. I think having an integrated health record eventually one day would be fantastic, right? I mean a universal platform for a communication, a game changer for healthcare. So I don't know a public health dentist that wouldn't say, Hey, that is a pie in the sky feature idea that I'm all on board with. I also think there are tools like UpToDate and like Stat Pearls better delivering this content. I know Stat Pearls has some dental content. We're looking to build that out. But I think one of those pocket guides that's delivering this current UpToDate evidence-based work is likely going to be the future. Who's going to take the lead in the next couple of decades? I don't know. I can't foresee the future, but I hope something like that comes along because that, that's a really straightforward way to deliver information, whether it's antibiotics, whether it's preventive dentistry, whether it's restorative care, and the latest on biomaterials or recall. If we had a platform like that that would help deliver this clinical communication, that would be an absolute game changer and linking it back to burnout, it would reduce administrative resistance. You are not going to be spending 10 hours going through 20 articles and looking up all of this information to figure out what's next. It would be curated and delivered to you in a really efficient way. And I think we have to start thinking that way because it's going to make it a lot easier and a lot more supportive for Dennis of the future.
Dustin Burleson:
I agree. I want to talk about your leadership position. You're the assistant dean for curriculum and integrated learning at KCU. I'm curious, not only some of the challenges and opportunities, we've touched on some of those in dental education, but what's it like to teach? I mean, obviously I can sense that you love it, but I'm curious, what's been most rewarding for you? What's it like to mentor young future dental professionals? What's that been like?
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
No one can tell you how amazing it's going to be until you experience it yourself. So this is my plug for dental academics. There's hundreds of positions open nationwide. No one has supported me in sharing this employment message, but I will tell you, there is nothing more exciting than being a dental educator. I work with so many students. I coach a lot of students spend a lot of one-on-one time with students, and there are students that really struggle sometimes, whether it's concepts or they have life bringing 'em down or whatever the case may be. And when you are watching them and you're rooting for them and they get it, they pass the test, they figure out the clinical skill, they navigate that really long family hurdle or that personal struggle, and you see that light in their eyes and you're sitting there cheerleading on the side for them. There is nothing better than that moment. I look at some of my students, I'm like, I've never felt that much joy from myself overcoming anything compared to the joy I feel watching you overcome or navigate that challenge or figure that thing out. And I see that in all dental educators.
It is so exciting to help someone else navigate this journey. To me, I don't think that there is a more rewarding career in dentistry, especially when you have students and patients all in the mix. It's like the service that you can provide is by far the most rewarding part of my job.
Dustin Burleson:
That's so good to hear. And again, I'm excited for your students, excited for our profession when I meet leaders like you. Are you also, right? I know you're a contributing editor for dental economics. When do you sleep, by the way? I think that the first section on burnout might've been preaching to the choir here.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Well, yeah, you're totally preaching the choir. I have been burnt out before. I do sleep quite a bit, believe it or not. I've just figured out, I guess, how to be efficient and plan things out. But writing, when you sent that question, Dustin, and I was thinking about it and prepping for today, I thought, what have I got from writing? What has writing shared with me over the years? And I looked back on some of my old articles and I realized that writing actually helps me be present in that part of my career and capture it, capture a picture of that moment and what I was thinking and maybe what I was feeling and what I was learning. And then I get to look back and it's like, oh, that was such a journey. How interesting. Like, oh, I don't even feel that way now. It's so interesting how my perspective changed in the last five years. So I think for me, writing has been a way to just connect with the journey and capture it over time. And I think that's why I've always loved being a part of writing podcast videos, that kind of stuff, because I think let's just talk about what we're all going through and let's see how we can partner and collaborate and connect so that we can get through this together.
Dustin Burleson:
Everyone listening, I would encourage you to write, I care if it's journaling or scrapbooking, whatever it is. I've learned so much about how I view things and often trying to put those into words is how I learn it works for me. Or find a peer, get a study club group and talk it out orally. The chair of my perio department, Simon McNeil was from London. He trained in the uk and all of our exams, all of our exams in the period department were oral. We did not have multiple choice. Guess your way through the microbiome. It was Tell me, what are the top eight pathogens? What do you think? There was no way to hide and writing for me lets me articulate some of those ideas that I don't understand yet. And I think also orally thinking 'em through is great. So I was curious. Any good writer, and you're a great writer by the way. I'm always curious, what do you get out of writing often? I'm beating my head against the wall and the first draft is garbage, and it just takes time to get it fleshed out. And I look back to on some of my early writing, I'm like, I was joking with an older, I would say, more of a senior consultant in our industry. And he's like, yeah, your first book was definitely written by a 20-year-old.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
I looked back on a couple of my things this week and I was like, I cannot believe you wrote that and allowed it to be published. Be published. Who clicked send. Oh, wait, I did.
Dustin Burleson:
Yes. Yes. Yeah. No, I think it's great. That's very cool. I know we're getting close to the end of our time together. I have a couple of questions left if you have time. I'm curious what one piece of advice you would give to young dentists who are listening and just starting their careers. What would that be?
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Ask yourself two questions. What are you great at and what do you love? And find that intersection and start there.
Dustin Burleson:
Love that. We're going to, I would just push rewind 15 seconds and listen to that again. We'll post that in the show notes. That's fantastic. And finally, are there any books, podcasts, resources, what do you recommend? Anyone looking to grow? This could be someone who's listening, who's been teaching for 30 years, or someone who's brand new in dental school. What advice or tools or resources might you have book podcast for anyone looking to grow either personally or professionally?
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
There are two things I'm obsessed with right now. One is a book called The Genius of Athletes by Noel Brick and Scott Douglas. I read this earlier this year and this book, it completely changed how I coach, how I coach myself. It is one of the best mindset books I have ever read to date. Cool. And it's just an absolute game changer. Very. And the second one, I cannot, I just have read it so many times, but every time I read it, I'm able to adjust my habits. It's Atomic Habits by James Clear, and then his newsletter is one of the absolute best things. It's one of the only emails that I'm subscribed to that I read every single time that it comes through. It's starred, it's flagged, it's highlighted.
And a lot of experts say, you are your, but at the end of the day, you, your habits are making up what you're doing every day. That influences your mindset, your connections, how you feel, your health, all of those things, your team. And so I think one of the things we have to iterate on for our whole lives, like a great manuscript, imagine your life is a fantastic manuscript. You are going to iterate that. You're going to write it and rewrite it and write it and rewrite it, and probably find some edits later on. The thing you're iterating on in life is your habits. Being great at that and being able to take feedback at different seasons and change that. It helps with everything that you do, whether it's your career, your connections, your community, your relationships, your health, your mindset. I've been really thinking about habit curation, which is something I've been working on, but I think it's a game changer, and so I keep going back to James Clear's work because it's helped me develop the habits that I have now, but it's also helped me refine what my day looks like.
Dustin Burleson:
That's great. I love his book. I did not know he had a newsletter. We're going to post that in the show notes that I'm going to go sign up as soon as we're done here. Thank you for coming on the show. I had so much fun. We're going to have to have you back. I could talk for hours about a lot of things, but this was so much fun. I had a blast.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Thank you so much. It's been great to be here. I loved learning about you as well. I can't believe we grew up in Ohio and you're at UMKC. It's just so many connections, so it's been really great to chat with you today, Dustin.
Dustin Burleson:
Awesome. Thanks Aaron. Have a great day. Thank you again.
Dr. Erinne Kennedy:
Thank you.
Dustin Burleson:
Thanks for listening to another episode of The Olson Box and a very special thank you to Dr. Aaron Kennedy for coming on the show. I had a ton of fun and hope you learned a lot about burnout and the future of preventive care and inspiring the next generation of dental professionals. If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe on whichever podcast platform you use to consume your podcasts and share us with your friends and colleagues. You can click the subscribe button, leave us a review. That would do a lot of good in helping us share the word with others in our profession. So again, thanks for being here. As always. I look forward to seeing you on another episode with.